My replacement for New and Improved Elmers Glue

scigs30 · Post by **scigs30** » Thu Sep 01, 2011 3:01 pm

As most know I build most of my planes with Elmers Glue all, and have been doing so since the early 80s. I also apply my tissue with Elmers Glue All, basically it has been a great glue until recently when they changed the formula. I have been trying to find a good replacement and finally Titebond has come through. They have a new white glue that is better than old Elmers and has the same properties and original Titebond except it is white and dries clear.
http://www.cabinetmakerfdm.com/11622.html

rayd · Post by **rayd** » Thu Sep 01, 2011 4:50 pm

Hi scigs30...I will indeed look at your covered models. Sure, most of us can likely become good at skeleton builds, it's when the covering and painting commences that woes start big time. Am still a relative "newbie"...from several decade halt in building, so am re acquainting myself with things.

Oh, thanks for tips re tissue covering in general....it is folly to be penny wise and pound foolish after spending assembly time only to botch things up with tissue. Man! things have changed...we'll hang in there for awhile.

Elmers changed formula lately. Bought fresh bottles which said "New Stonger Formula".....older ones I had did not. What are you experiencing if I may ask. I'm messing up enough re-acquainting myself with newer/old "stuff" and now they are changing?? FYI, at local supermarket, next to Elmers, store had own house brand white glue, same looking bottle, also a white "School Glue".. Elmers AND store brand! Store brand indicated Made in China ... Elmers marked "Made in USA." Likely, some chains have own private label white glues. They should not copy eg newer Elmers for legal reasons. What's it all mean for us? Dunno yet, more confusioin maybe.

scigs30 · Post by **scigs30** » Thu Sep 01, 2011 5:10 pm

The new stuff it watery and does not dry well. Also the glue joint is weaker. I had no issues with the old formula so I don't know why Elmers changed their formula. This new Titebond white glue is great and I gave my Elmers glue to my wife for scrap booking. Are you planning on building for static or flying?

rayd · Post by **rayd** » Thu Sep 01, 2011 10:21 pm

Yo! scigs30....you gotta be a champ, a guru in covering. I looked at pix some of your work...impressive, and that Newport? mmm. Seriously, great work. You, along with some of other champs here are shoe-ins as contest winners for aesthetics, maybe flight as well.

You did most work with Elmer's Glue All? Wow! So, new stuff I'm gettin' ready to use is watery compared to older formula? Not good. Maybe calls/emails to their Customer Svc in order. Maybe some of us can call. I have new Elmers, older one, and will buy known house brands to try. Perhaps they're still based on earlier old Elmers formula, the kind you and others seem to like. Maybe Guillows can make an inquiry also, since this white Elmer's Glue ALL has become popular for balsa airplane assembly and covering.

If you assemble/covered planes like Neuport with Elmers, then no reason for them to change formula. They need input. Squeeky wheel gets the grease thing. Maybe try something before writing new Elmers off...get another bottle or two elsewhere. (Find with different number on back.) It's possible there were storage issues at store or supplier level, or first batch woes...or some glue at bottom became caked or dried up. I'm not a glue expert or chemist, but it may be worth a shot asking Elmers.

Oh, you asked my plans..this retiree would like to occupy mind assembling, but will not likely fly 'em, maybe 1-2 throws, then static display, and offer planes gratis to some friends. Good Karma maybe, plus I'm hoping Santa will bring me a laser cut Neiuport II and extra tissue, will specify Esaki or equivalent. Good glue also, the kind Santa uses.

scigs30 · Post by **scigs30** » Fri Sep 02, 2011 7:25 am

I started using this new Titebond and to be honest it is the best white glue I have ever used so I am going to continue using it. Some of the Generic White glues are more or less school glue and they are watered down. I do cover using white glue to attach my tissue but I have been doing that since the early 80's way before Glue Sticks became popular. I have tried Glue sticks and they work ok, but I am used to the White glue method and don't want to change now.

Szyp · Post by **Szyp** » Fri Sep 02, 2011 11:45 am

I think the old adage "you get what you pay for " applies here. Also, and I am not offering a sermon, but if each American spent $62 a year on buying made in USA instead of the cheaper made in China our national debt would be greatly eased, if not cured. I am not trying to inject politic here, but rather try to explain the reason for price and quality differences. If I have offended anyone, or injected politics where they do not belong, I humbly apologize and will not do it again.

SteveM · Post by **SteveM** » Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:59 pm

Szyp wrote:if each American spent $62 a year <snip> our national debt would be greatly eased, if not cured.

Oh dear. I so badly want to say something, but it is far more important to keep the forum clear of such talk so I will argue the point. Please don't carry this conversation any further. If you do, I will let you get the last word in because I'll not reply again on economics of getting out of debt in this forum.

I find Weldbond glue to work very well. It is made in Canada and available in the Sates in smaller hardware stores such as those mom and pop ones with the "ACE Hardware" signs. I've not seen the Titebond white glue available locally in quantities under a gallon. Glad to see smaller bottle are offered, but I didn't see a way to purchase them at the link provided.

rayd · Post by **rayd** » Fri Sep 02, 2011 2:05 pm

Of course we'd like to buy American, if we could. I can't find a domestically made undershirt, latest American flag I ordered said Made in China, some Guillows boxes also. Rockport shoes I'm wearing says Vietnam! Ok, lets set these aside for now. I'm all for USA, but realistically, nowadays we must decide what's ok, and available for our budget and hard earned bucks. I don't mean to offend anyone or any country. Apologies if I did. That said, here's a tad of info so far re Elmers.

They have a website with email, phone, address info. I sent email today re my buddies perhaps having trouble with white glue New Stronger Formula, to give Elmers a heads up if something is or went wrong in production. Did not mention sites, aka names, it will stay as such if they inquire.

Labor day weekend not greatest to call manufacturers. Ok, point of interest..New Stronger Formula Elmers, on back of that bottle says Made in USA. A bottle maybe just before this "new" stuff came out that I had said Made in Canada, and overall artwork appeared mildly different. If they answer me, will report to you guys....or ask them yourself also at www.elmers.com. Regards rayd

SteveM · Post by **SteveM** » Fri Sep 02, 2011 2:23 pm

I just checked my three bottles of Elmer's white glue (two 4oz and one 8oz).

The oldest had a label copyright date of 1999 and was "made in the USA", the next was copyright 2006 and "made in Canada", the newest was the 8oz bottle copyright 2008 and was "Assembled in USA". Considering the trend to adding the word "assembled" to meet strict labeling laws such as those in CA, I'd not be surprised in the glue has been made overseas for some time now and the bottles filled locally.

Regardless, it sounds like Titebond works just as well and Elmer's won't be missed.

Dusty · Post by **Dusty** » Sun Sep 04, 2011 6:35 pm

The Canadian made glue could be Weldbond, it's what I use for white(PVA) glue and I find it works well, similar to RC56. I don't go through much though as I use CA where I can, but maybe I'll look for some of the old Elmer's.

Xanadu · Post by **Xanadu** » Sun Sep 04, 2011 7:20 pm

Weldbond is very good stuff, dries clear. I use it quite often.

Dusty · Post by **Dusty** » Sun Sep 04, 2011 7:27 pm

So it looks like we're Team Canada eh? Hey, how 'bout them Bombers? Ya, well maybe they'll win the Banjo Bowl, they never beat Saskatchewan on Labour Day!

cliffm · Post by **cliffm** » Sun Sep 04, 2011 7:34 pm

Not finding the old white elmers I've been using elmers wood glue(interior) and have been getting very good results with glue joints and covering. Although when mixing for covering it needs about 10-15% more water than the old white elmers.

Dusty · Post by **Dusty** » Sun Sep 04, 2011 7:50 pm

It's interesting that thinned white glue seems to be a substitute for dope, I figured it would be too heavy or not stick well but the Weldbond website reccomends using it 5-to-1 to seal balsa. Well I'll be jiggered!

granpa · Post by **granpa** » Mon Sep 05, 2011 8:33 am

3M Scotch makes "Clear Glue" That has worked well for me on joints. It comes in a 1.6 oz plastic tube with a great little applicator.