Tissue weight research.

RG WILLIAMS · Post by **RG WILLIAMS** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 8:55 pm

I don't know if anyone has done a study of tissue weight. Japanese and "hobby supply light weight tissus" vs Domestic type found in local stores.
I thought I could use my new electronic letter scale to see how various brands and types of tissues compare. My scale can read down to 0.1 gram.
rg

cessna96836 · Post by **cessna96836** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 9:21 pm

thats pretty lite do you know anything about the stock tissue that comes with the planes is it any good or should i invest in better tissue

MikeTaylor · Post by **MikeTaylor** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 9:36 pm

Dave Lewis at Homefly.com has some useful reference materials on his iste including this covering materials weight chart. Notice that these are grams per square meter...
Here;s the chart

RG WILLIAMS · Post by **RG WILLIAMS** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 9:37 pm

In checking some of the hobby supply places:

For a 20 inch x 30 inch piece of "light weight tissue " in various colors the weight ranges 6.4 - 6.5 grams.
6.5 grams divided by 600 sq. in. =0.012 .per sq.in. The silver metallic tissue offered is very close to the same weight at 7.1 grams per 600 sq.in.

Esaki ( Japanese ) tissue is sold in smaller sheets. 18in x 24in.
432 sq.in. with a weight of 3.4 grams. That would be about 0.008 grams per sq. in.

RG WILLIAMS · Post by **RG WILLIAMS** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 9:47 pm

cessna 96836

I will also check the weight of Guillows tissue.

I think colored tissue with a very light clear type spray is the way to go. The painting of these models looks great but can really add the weight.
Take a look at the chart from Mike Taylor.
Remember for a rubber powered model light is right. If you want the best performance.
rg

RG WILLIAMS · Post by **RG WILLIAMS** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 10:18 pm

I will look at the tissue found in national stores. Walmart, HobbyLobby as two examples,

cessna 96836,
I think the Guillows tissue will work if you don"t paint it.
We know that the Esaki is the lightest weight and one of the best for application and strength.
My question is how close to this "gold standard" can we come with domestic sources?
This flying model stuff is more than meets the eye. It's both art and science.
rg

FLYBOYZ · Post by **FLYBOYZ** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 10:50 am

I know this much don,t use spray enamle paints it adds up to beatiful airplane =nice finish =heavy air plane =plane fly like a brick =total wipe out

Post by **mark** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 3:01 pm

Hello All,

Just some FYI on the weights of covering that Guillow's uses in the model kits.

Our lightweight Tissue covering (found only in our very small inexpensive kits) - 20" x 30" sheet is 6.5g

Our better covering of Silkspan (found in most of our model kits) - 15" x 35" sheet is 4.0g ( 11.81 g/m2 )

Regards,
Mark
PKG

thymekiller · Post by **thymekiller** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 11:41 pm

Thank you Mark. Thats good to know.
I posted a thing about esaki vs domestic on another thread before I read this one. I should have weighted.
Esaki is expensive, but lighter and stronger than domestic tissue. Its not THAT much lighter. If your going for the record, get the best. If your just having fun, domestic comes in an unbelevable array of colors and patterns.
My 500 series warhawk uses Guillows tissue and has a lite coat of Krylon. [ spray paint.] It will fly 25/30 seconds with good rubber.
If you want esaki, I posted a couple links on the thread before this one.
Mike Taylors chart is a good one to use to compare.

thymekiller

earlhouse · Post by **earlhouse** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 2:06 pm

I am recovering several old Guillows model that have been stored in my attic over 30 years. Most were set up with .049 engines for control line. Does anyone know how the weight compares to using couple coats of 25% Elmers white glue and water compared to using thinned dope to seal the silkspan? I had always used dope to attach and seal, but have been trying the white glue thinned for attaching and sealing. I like working with the glue, but don't know how it compares weight wise.

Will Krylon clear spray finish fuel proof enought for using .049 engines? If not, what will work over tissue that has couple of coats of clear Krylon to fuel proof?

supercruiser · Post by **supercruiser** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 4:27 pm

What a nice find in your attic. I would say that if you are going to fly these with an .049, the weight difference between using elmer's or dope really won't matter.

I don't think there is any way that Krylon is fuel proof. I would just put a few coats of clear dope over the Kryon. Try it in a inconspicuous area. The dope and Krylon may have an adverse reaction.

RG WILLIAMS · Post by **RG WILLIAMS** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 7:21 pm

Good find in the attic. I also have some 1960's glow engines. One is a Cox spring starter .049. The other is a Holland Hornet ,also .049.
From my readings .you should ues fuel-proof dope. Thin it to 30-50% strength and apply several thin coats. You could spray or brush it on.
Supercruiser is correct. Unless the model is quite large, the .049 will give you plenty of power.
What is the ws and estimated weight of your model?

One more thing. If weight will be of concern, apply a thicker coat around the engine area and less at the tail.
Keep us posted.
Best Regards
rg

earlhouse · Post by **earlhouse** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 9:31 pm

The Guillows are P51 and Zero with 27 inch WS. And a SBD Dauntlass with 30 inch WS. The P51 and Zero have Cox .049. The Dauntlass has Cox Medallion .09 with throttle ring and 3 line control. I flew these alot before 1974 when I had knee surgery which turned out bad and could not get down on knees to mess with control line. I just had total knee replacement 6 months ago and can now get on knees fine and am fixing up my old control line planes. Also have a Sig F8 Bearcat with Fox .15, Sig Super Chimpmuck with Fox .35, Midwest P63 King Cobra with OS Max .40 and Sterling P38 with twin OS Max .10 engines with throttle. I have cleaned up all the motors and have them all running nice. I am having to recover all except the Sig F8 Bearcat which is planked and balsa sheet covered wings.

The reason I am wondering about the weight is I bought all 6 Guillows series 300 kits which I hope to convert to mini RC with the little 5 gram Outrunner electric motors. I just like building the Guillows kits.

thymekiller · Post by **thymekiller** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 11:08 pm

Sounds like earlhouse is going to have alot of fun.

I was wondering about silkspan. I have never used it. Does it apply like tissue? Is it lighter than esaki? Does it shrink? ect?
Thinking about useing it on my javelin.

thymekiller

SteveM · Post by **SteveM** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 12:19 am

thymekiller wrote:Sounds like earlhouse is going to have alot of fun.

I was wondering about silkspan. I have never used it. Does it apply like tissue? Is it lighter than esaki? Does it shrink? ect?
Thinking about useing it on my javelin.

thymekiller

Silkspan is similar to tissue except that it has some wet strength. This allows the surface to be covered wet which is beneficial for compound surfaces. Silkspan typically comes in 3 weights and even the lightest of these is heavier than esaki. The heavy Silkspan is actually quite heavy and durable.

You can still apply it dry like tissue if you like and water causes it to shrink.

http://members.cox.net/sandiegodrones/d ... lkspan.pdf
http://balsamodels.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=744
http://webpages.charter.net/rcfu/HelpsH ... Cover.html

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