Laser vs. Die-Cut

RVA · Post by **RVA** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 11:36 am

My question in short: Is laser cut (i.e. 400 series) worth paying 3 times more than the 500 series? What are unique advantages to "laser"?

Background: Looking to return to the hobby having aged 30 yrs and (hopefully) gained some patience. I have completed the 900-series mustang with a fair degree of success and found the hobby is a much to my liking. So, what's next?

I see myself building into either the 400 or 500 series warbirds and will probably build though the whole series eventually - maybe ordering multiples to save on shipping. They will likely be static models and scale is only modestly important.

Simply looking for advice on which direction I should go. Clearly there are reasons to go with the laser cut or else Guillow would not make them. But being able to buy 3 500's for every 1 400 has it's obvious advantages. I am looking for someone to explain the main differences so I can determine if it would matter to me.

Thanks,
-Ryan

Oh, this is my 1st post. Thanks to all those who post advice and pictures of your projects. They are great encouragement and inspiration.

mr.charlse · Post by **mr.charlse** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 1:10 pm

the difference is that die-crunched is almost unusable
and lazer cut is awesome

Supercubber95 · Post by **Supercubber95** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 1:51 pm

Come now, Mr.Charlse!

Die-cut ain't that bad. I've built 5 kits, all die cut, becuase laser cut kits are way above my price range. I've had great luck, really enjoyed 'em and just fix a crack here and there. Go for it!!!

RVA · Post by **RVA** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 2:13 pm

Like I said in the original post, the one and only model I've completed was of the die variety and had no problems at all. In fact, it sold me on the hobby. I have also read enough here to know that there are problems with some die kits being "crushed". This risk in and of itself is not enough to convince me laser is the only way to go.

Phugoid · Post by **Phugoid** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:25 pm

The die cut wood is usually unusable due to crushing only when the wood is light probably because the tooling used has seen better days. Heavy wood die cuts pretty well, and since most Guillows kits come with wood that is tougher than vindaloo'd mutton then it's a solid bet that the die cut kits are probably fine where you're going to build a static model.

The laser cutting process SHOULD mean that guillows can use decent light wood in their kits, which would make us fliers happy but time will tell if they do that................

Andrew

jensheydel · Post by **jensheydel** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:52 pm

I am old enough to recall when an expensive kit from guillows meant about 12 dollars of pocket money. Having built just about everything they ever sold in the seventies I can tell that I for one am very glad to see them go over to laser cut parts. Simply put they fit, now granted these kits are just refurbished from plans at times over 40 years old so do not expect an interlocking cannot build it wrong model even if you try but they are a world better than the die cut ones I recall from the days of my youth.

Yes they are more expensive now ... I should know I paid not only the kit price but also the import price to Europe. Butit is nice to see a laser cut kit that reminds of the long gone days of my youth. Is it worth the extra money? for me yeah it is, I got tired of fixing the parts before I could build the model and I bought this 400 series I am now working on just to see what the kits are like. So far so good, good quality wood and the parts fit as advertised, Guillows could however stop tossing those awful stringer packs in there and start using sanded stock like the competition does. 65 Euros is a lot of coin for a trip down memory lane and at that price I can get a top quality kit from England that has all the bells and whistles in it.

But to answer your question RVA, yeah it is worth it at least for me.

Cheers, Jens

RVA · Post by **RVA** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 6:16 pm

thanks Jens and the others for your input. Also saw others discussing similar topic on your 109 conversion. Anyway, It seem like there is no one answer right for everyone. Since I am still very new, I think I'm going to get my feet a little more wet with a couple of 500 series kits. hone my skills for $20+ and see if I still like it as much. Will also give me a chance to try a couple of covering techniques - wet, etc. If still as motivated, I will bump up to the 400s and spend the necessary time to produce the quality models I see others putting out.

Thanks again,
-Ryan

Supercubber95 · Post by **Supercubber95** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:08 pm

I would go to Ebay:http://cgi.ebay.com/GUILLOW-GUI501-WARH ... 3cb868858d or Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/ ... dition=new and http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/ ... dition=new for a couple under 20 bucks. Just a thought.

Szyp · Post by **Szyp** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:22 pm

I have recently rejoined the modelers ranks, with a 2000 series B17G die cut, and a 400 series laser cut Spitfire. For me, night and day difference. The lc parts literally fall out of the matrix, the 1/16 square notches on the formers are precision cut so the stringers literally snap in place, parts are clearly identified, and probably some other things I have not noticed yet. As for future models, it is laser cut only for me at my present skill level. Other opinions may vary.

ADW 123 · Post by **ADW 123** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:00 pm

i like laser cut like many other people. the fact that guillows is re drawing and laser cutting means that the parts will be very accurate, wich the die cuts cant say.

i will say i dont mind messing with the die cuts if i dont want to pay the price for lc. if you have the money for a nice lc kit, buy it. you wont look back. you can do a lot with them.

cliffm · Post by **cliffm** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 9:00 pm

Yes the laser cut models are very very nice and they make assembly so simple even a cave man can do it,ha ha. The die cut birds do require a little more patience and skill to get show quality results but it's just a little more challenge in the build for me and I must be lucky in the kits I've recieved because out of the 17 die cut kits only about 3 pieces really needed to be redone and there was always enough spare wood in the kit to duplicate the parts which is another thing about guillows in that they are not chincy on stringers and wood. Laser cut is fine for those who can afford the luxury, but die cut still has it's merits.

ADW 123 · Post by **ADW 123** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 9:02 pm

for the smaller kits, i enjoy cutting my own notches and the die cuts for them. i think laser cutting the larger birds first should be a primary concern, as they are the ones with the most die cut issues.

scigs30 · Post by **scigs30** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 9:22 pm

If you are building for static, it shouldn't matter how heavy the wood is, so the next issue is the quality of die cutting. Some kits come with decent die cutting and go together pretty well, other than having to cut your own notches and some parts not matching up to the plans. That is easy to overcome just takes more time, no big deal. Now if the wood is die crushed, then you end up having to cut out your own parts, that can easily be done but does take time. I built a laser cut Zero in a few days and a Nieuport 11 in 2 days and I build with Elmers white glue. If they were die cut, I would have spent more time making the parts fit perfect. Laser cut is nice, but yes it is more expensive. I would be happy if Guillows provided high quality balsa and print wood, I don't mind cutting out my own parts. When it comes to laser vs die cut, I will pick laser cut every time. For me, I am only buying laser cut kits from Guillows since eventually they will all be laser cut. Also they are more expensive so if I get oak, I have no problem asking for better quality wood.

SteveM · Post by **SteveM** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 10:32 pm

RVA wrote:My question in short: Is laser cut (i.e. 400 series) worth paying 3 times more than the 500 series?

Uhmmmm, because the 400 series kits have 3 times as much material in them? I can get out my scale and weigh the kits if anyone wants to challenge that guesstimate.

The 500 series BF-109 is 1/32 scale and 16.5" wing span while the 400 series BF-109 is 1/16 scale and 24.378" wing span. The 400 series also has a greater amount of scale detail and includes U/C parts and the bits you would need to power it with a fuel motor.
http://www.balsamodels.com/Parts/505-kitparts.htm or http://www.guillow.com/505kitparts.aspx
http://www.balsamodels.com/Parts/401-kitparts.htm or http://www.guillow.com/401kitparts.aspx

I converted a 400 series P-51 die cut to R/C and it had great flying characteristics I used all kit wood except the leading edges because they were astonishingly heavy and hard. If building for display I'd rather have die-cut Guillows wood than the laser cut punk wood that comes in Dumas kits. I've not built a laser cut Guillow's kit, but I can't imagine anything better for display than solid wood that has been laser cut.

SteveM · Post by **SteveM** » Sat Jun 18, 2011 9:21 am

David Duckett wrote:Punk wood?

Yes, referring to the definition "wood so decayed as to be dry, crumbly, and useful for tinder" or "very poor: inferior".

Also used by Howard: http://www.virtualaerodrome.com/image_d ... e_id=21114

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